TopHat as Peter Griffen once said, "Ha yea right, I've been barking up that tree for years"
Burger Time
JoinedPosts by Burger Time
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30
Email from my Mom defending WTS, Point/counter point/ Point
by Burger Time ina little back story; i have been having a lot of debates with my mom about society stuff.
anyways i directed her to the watchtower documents and the molestation charges.
she then sent me an email here is what she wrote, the orginal email was just a link to the site and i said something to the effect of, jehovah makes public the records that were supposed to be hidden!
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Email from my Mom defending WTS, Point/counter point/ Point
by Burger Time ina little back story; i have been having a lot of debates with my mom about society stuff.
anyways i directed her to the watchtower documents and the molestation charges.
she then sent me an email here is what she wrote, the orginal email was just a link to the site and i said something to the effect of, jehovah makes public the records that were supposed to be hidden!
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Burger Time
Yea I got a kick out of that one too. Evidently Paradise is in Montana...
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Email from my Mom defending WTS, Point/counter point/ Point
by Burger Time ina little back story; i have been having a lot of debates with my mom about society stuff.
anyways i directed her to the watchtower documents and the molestation charges.
she then sent me an email here is what she wrote, the orginal email was just a link to the site and i said something to the effect of, jehovah makes public the records that were supposed to be hidden!
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Burger Time
Corrected
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I received a package from my mother today
by ex-nj-jw inmy dub mother sent me a package today, inside was a nwt bible, a picture of me around age 5 at an assembly - i looked miserable and my dad was holding a battery operated fan in front of me, and a letter, here is the letter.
i ask that you remember that i was 18 when i left and i'm now 42, that there is a total of 8 children in my family and there are only 2 that are still jw's, oh and that my mother is a complete nutcase!
dear nj:.
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Burger Time
I would just like to point out that my Mother is not crazy. Just the other night we got in a very heated debate on bible matters. We were both able to the end the phone call laughing and saying we love each other. I couldn't imagine what you guys go through with parents who are willing to send letters so hurtfull and totally non-Christian. It's just mind blowing. My Mom is a very to the book JW but she would never do such a thing. Her STEP SON is DF'd and she speaks to him on a regular basis, she just doesn't discuss spiritual things with thim. Crazyness.
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Email from my Mom defending WTS, Point/counter point/ Point
by Burger Time ina little back story; i have been having a lot of debates with my mom about society stuff.
anyways i directed her to the watchtower documents and the molestation charges.
she then sent me an email here is what she wrote, the orginal email was just a link to the site and i said something to the effect of, jehovah makes public the records that were supposed to be hidden!
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Burger Time
A little back story; I have been having a lot of Debates with my Mom about society stuff. Anyways I directed her to the Watchtower documents and the molestation charges. She then sent me an email here is what she wrote, the orginal email was just a link to the site and I said something to the effect of, Jehovah makes public the records that were supposed to be hidden! Not sure whats going on with the formatting?? I have tried changing it but it doesn't work. Sorry it's so small.
Jon,
As regards the unclean behavior of "so called" brothers who misuse their positions or their brotherhood to harm others, the apostle Paul gave excellent advice on this very matter in 2 Thessolonians 4:1-12/ Note verse 11 and 12 in particular. The advice to mind your own business in context refers to not getting involved in matters that do not involve you personally....not broadcasting the problems of others. It coincides with 2 Thessolonians 1:8-10 and Romans 12:19. These are not particularly easy concepts to grasp.....but for all of Jehovah's people to know the details of the judicial cases involving child abuse would not incite love and fine works.....it would stir up contentions and would have a dividing effect rather than a unifying effect ....... a distraction from the main issue at hand......God's Kingdom needs to be preached about ........People are going to die if they don't "get in the ark".
Our District Overseer gave a good illustration as to where people are today.....even some of Jehovah's people are in this situation. " A man was driving in a blizzard. Things were looking really bad when he saw a snow plow just ahead. He decided to follow the snowplow. He drove and drove following as closely as he dared , sometimes losing sight of the plow, but then seeing it again. Things were really bad. Finally, the snowplow stopped. The driver got out and came to the man's window. the man rolled down the window and the plow driver asked, "Where are you going? The man replied, " Well, I'm on my way to Montana." The snow plow driver said, " Well, I'm clearing this parking lot!" The people in the world are like the man following the snowplow in the parking lot......they are going nowhere . The job of the faithful slave and our job as their companions is to "take as many as will, to Montana"......no to the Kingdom Hope. there is more to life than just driving around in a parking lot. ( getting involved in matters that are going to be cleared up completely in the New System.....rather than concentrating on the real issue at hand) Our heavenly Father thru his Son Jesus has a much higher purpose for us and they are the only ones who can fix things the right way.....they are the only ones who know what we need and how to give it to us.
Love YOU,
MOMMy reply:
Mom, Peter took the exact same attitude you are taking when the Jews got on to him about eating with Gentiles. When you see gross sin occurring much like this molestation thing it needs to be cleaned out immediately. The question again and again comes up as to why Paul brought up Peter in such a public manor as a letter to a congregation. What kind of an example is that? If we are to just sit idle and wait on God when we see horrible things why would Paul bring up Peter in a letter, to EVERYONE in the church? Why would he point out that he went to the Jerusalem church to point this out? He didn't pull any punches on the matter. Neither should we. About the scriptures you used: 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12; I agree that we should mind our own business, but this scripture was for dealings with the outside world, not the inner problems of the church. Paul made it clear by his own example(Galatians) and in his letters that if your brother sins you point it out, and with an Elder or a anointed one you find two witnesses to point out a sin, and you can do it in front of the whole congregation and publicly (1 Timothy 5:17-19). Paul even said that in the last days if men were not from God their "follies" would be know to all (2 Timothy 3:9). Furthermore Paul said if someone is teaching something wrong they are to be silenced and rebuked sharply (Titus 1:11,13) this was directed towards people with clout in the congregation. But if you go along with the flow when you know something is bad then you are as bad off as the sinner (James 2:9). We are to judge people by their actions (James 3:13). So the bible makes it very clear that when dealing in problems within the church people are made as examples, much as Paul, Peter and James also were. Paul even encouraged the church to look at his mistakes and his good deeds and they could judge for themselves if he was from God. Again he held himself to the standered he held everyone else to. Romans 12; This whole chapter is about doing things with the right spirit. As Christians we should never tear down one another in a bad spirit. But what is more loving then seeing your brothers and sisters hurt and trying to correct that hurt? Is it not better for the many if you point out to them that someone is doing hurt and they know how to correct it? What did Paul say in the bottom part of verse 2? He said, "then YOU will be able to test and approve what God's will is". The whole point of the scripture is having Christian freedom but having it in the right frame of mind. There is nothing wrong with doing your own thing so long as your doing it with the right intent. This goes back to what I discussed in the last paragraph. You can judge the intent by the actions. I personally have never heard anything about or from Barbara Anderson that leads me to believe she is maliciously trying besmirch the Witnesses, just trying to help children in a situation that is clearly bad. but for all of Jehovah's people to know the details of the judicial cases involving child abuse would not incite love and fine works.....it would stir up contentions and would have a dividing effect rather than a unifying effect ....... Mom it would not have a dividing effect it would have cleansing effect. Having a true scriptural viewpoint isn't dividing but cleansing. Only by teaching one thing and doing another does something divide. The truth does not divide it cleanses. So it wouldn't be the details that divide, it would be the WTS blatant hypocrisy that would divide, which would be scriptural. Again who was Jesus referring to about stumbling your brother? If the facts never came out could anyone be stumbled? The whole point is that your actions WILL BE KNOWN and therefore it could stumble someone and the person doing the stumbling would also be held accountable. " A man was driving in a blizzard. Things were looking really bad when he saw a snow plow just ahead. He decided to follow the snowplow. He drove and drove following as closely as he dared , sometimes losing sight of the plow, but then seeing it again. Things were really bad. Finally, the snowplow stopped. The driver got out and came to the man's window. the man rolled down the window and the plow driver asked, "Where are you going? The man replied, " Well, I'm on my way to Montana." The snow plow driver said, " Well, I'm clearing this parking lot!" The people in the world are like the man following the snowplow in the parking lot......they are going nowhere . The job of the faithful slave and our job as their companions is to "take as many as will, to Montana"......no to the Kingdom Hope. there is more to life than just driving around in a parking lot. ( getting involved in matters that are going to be cleared up completely in the New System.....rather than concentrating on the real issue at hand) Our heavenly Father thru his Son Jesus has a much higher purpose for us and they are the only ones who can fix things the right way.....they are the only ones who know what we need and how to give it to us. N O ONE should ever be discouraged for trying to stop others from being hurt, and letting the truth be known. This goes against everything both you, Dad and the bible teaches. Perhaps we should look at the underlying issue here. If the man would have simply gotten out of his vehicle or waited for the storm to let up, he may have realized he was in a parking lot. Instead he just aimlessly followed something he thought was right. Never stopping to ask or seek out what was really going on. Had he not just followed what appeared to be correct he would not have wasted all of his gas and could have been on the true path to Montana. Isn't the truth of this illustration that the man in the truck took action to correct the driver behind him? Would it have been loving to just let the man follow him for as long as he was working? So why would it be loving to purposely let yourself and others follow in something that is both unscriptural and hurtful? Even it is based on the old "perfect" law if it hurts your brother you shouldn't follow that law (Romans 14:13)! You should never follow anything without finding out the FACTS of the situation. Lets say someone makes you a map, from what you know this person has a good reputation for map making. You have no reason to doubt your map is wrong. What though if you receive a call from your friend who tells you he used the map and it was completely wrong? They say their lost and need help getting to their location. Would you just assume they were making up a false story to smear the person who made the map? Or would you call, ask the map maker and then test the map yourself before you made a choice? Now lets say you call the map maker to ask him about his map. He gets angry and tells you that your friend is being malicious and that you are to believe nothing your lost friend says. Would you just automatically take his word for it? Of course not! You would let the map, his work be the judge! Like wise the facts in this case are the judge of this policy and people should know the truth on this subject so they can judge for themselves. Only Jesus and his Father are perfect. So should we strive to be, this means sometimes we have to make tough decisions, like speaking out against those who are powerful.
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new e-mail from my mom
by Heather inmy moms e-mails get shorter and shorter.
this latest says only this.. 2 peter chapter 2. lovely.........i'm a dog returning to my vomit.
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Burger Time
My Mom is a to the T dub, I am going to start posting my theological arguments with her on here. Granted she is a bit more open minded then most, but I think I have found a good level of argumentation with her, which would probably work on most dubs.
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Jehovah's Witnesses Today & Yesterday
by minimus injws today are not like the ones i knew when i was growing up.
we used to look down upon those that didn't make all of the meetings and regularly go out in service every weekend!
if someone was not in the theocratic ministry school----what was wrong with them???
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Burger Time
God you old fogies...you know what the saying is? "If it's too slack your to old"! Yea yea you had to walk 10 miles through the snow while reading the WT for next week and highlighting answers for that week all at the same time. Get with the new Rock n' Roll dubs old man!
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Another thought on the upcomming changes...
by changeling inwith the public talk being shortened, the "members only" wt, and the bombshell in the sept.km comming up, i was wondering:.
has the society given up hope of bringing in new ones in affluent countries (with the exception of the foreign language field)?
are they thinking that they have to hover around those already "in", and not lose them because, now that they have access to info on the internet, new ones are just not going to "buy" the message?.
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Burger Time
I agree with Metatron....the shortening of the meetings is more then likely just a change in attitude from new GB members. They are a bit younger and not so stuck in their ways. They probably realize what I did, that when the WT study is faster it's so much less boring. Remember when the public speaker would go over like 15 minutes, and they would skip to questions only? That was the best!
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What Was the Final Straw for Barbara Anderson Leaving the JWs? Here it is..
by Seeker4 infirst a few important points.
here's the link to the website featuring the jw court documents dvd: www.watchtowerdocuments.com.
let's keep passing that on.. second: the subject of getting this into hands of the national press has been handled, and if everyone could leave it at that for the time being, we'll inform you on here what to look for in the next week or so, hopefully.
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Burger Time
I was talking to my Mom about this last night and for the first time the wall kind of came down for the defense of the men at the top. She asked what possible purpose could releasing these documents positively effect the R&F in the org. Of course we were talking under the assumption that the JWs are God's org. I was able to make her speechless by using what every single JW says, "When it is God's time the facts will come out", so I said, "well the facts are out so it must be God's time for punishing the body". I was able to make it clear by saying that when Jesus was talking about Stumbling your brothers it was things like this. Why else would he talk about stumbling unless you had to be responsible for actions you make? If you can't be found out, or if it is always blamed on Satan how could anyone stumble by anyone else? If Jesus was talking to only the anointed with the Slave parable then who was he talking to about throwing yourself into the sea if you stumble your brothers? She had to admit that I was correct and that the GB had committed serious error and it couldn't be blamed on some angry apostate. It also opened up the argument about "good" apostates, and bad apostates. If these facts were coming out and God was punishing the GB you can't claim that these people are "bad" apostates if God is using them. Anyways just thought I would explain the convo me and my Moms had.
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Did You REALLY Believe?
by Eh ini don't believe jw teachings anymore.
i don't believe the bible is anything more than a religious text written by men.
i have no reason to believe there's anything beyond the natural world.
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Burger Time
I tried. I really did. But I just couldn't believe they fell in line with biblical guidelines. I am so glad my Mom forced me to read and choose for MYSELF rather or not I believed. She would guilt me but the seeds were already planted. I could choose for myself and my Mom and Pops always backed me up, albeit with a bit of guilt every once in a while. I never got baptized and can bash the society as much as I want cause as my Mom says, "your not apostate because you have never acknowledged that they have power over your life". Yea go Mom!